Gopi girl in the making, age eighteen and a half or thereabouts.
Back in the days, life was all about running for the nectar-oozing worlds where every word was a song and every step a dance, joining a team of prepuberal little angel girls in yet another venture in fetching flowers and honey wine for the cuddling transcendent couple's scheduled daily dalliances. For all my transgender transcendentalism in the fantasy worlds, it sure spinned my yin and yang into a hefty gordian's knot.
22 comments:
The word is pubertal (related to puberty)
Anytime you artificially impose a self-conception on the mind there will be discomfort and dissatisfaction.
That is why the whole "siddha-pranali" system of artificially contemplating oneself as a manjari is most often destructive in devotional life.
Devotional bhavas well up from within the heart.
The attempts to artificially conceive oneself as a gopi when one should be practicing basic vaidhi-sadhana is not helpful.
The whole siddha-pranali system was rejected by the Saraswata acharyas as it was seen as sahajiyaism when such conditioned souls are setting around dreaming that they are gopis of Krishna.
Ananda of course always felt himself above the teachings of the Saraswat acharyas.
Quite amuzing that he is now no longer a Vaishnava.
by the way, where does the teachings of the Goswamis say that the manjaris are""prepubescent".
Considering that puberty in girls starts around age 9, how is it that manjaris are said to be "prepubescent"?
Puberal and pubertal are both valid spellings. Its onset of course varies from culture to culture, and as a general trend is a bit ahead in the West, bit late in the East.
The manjaris got no proper boobs for one, nor are they inclined to be sexually active. They are either pre-pub or just at the very beginning. Not that it makes whole lot of difference to me, I don't care either way.
Well, my sources say:
"Rupa Manjari -
In the northern part of Sri Lalita Sakhi’s kunja lies Rupollasa Kunja, where the very beautiful and graceful Sri Rupa Manjari resides. She is the foremost among the gopis known as priya-narma-sakhis. Her complexion is the color of gorocana (a bright yellow pigment secreted from a cow’s kidney), and she delights in wearing a dress the color of peacock feathers. Her age is 13 years 6 months. The panditas call her Rangana-malika. In age, she is one day younger than Lavanga Manjari. In gaura-lila she appears as Srila Rupa Gosvami."
So, at 13 years and 6 months, most girls have fairly well developed breasts.
There are some girls that age that have rather LARGE firm breasts.
Okay, my bad. So the nectar land has both young gopi girls with and without semi-developed boobs. And some are in purna-yauvana and have firm teenager boobs, and some are in nava-yauvana and are almost there.
Today we watched "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society" on South Park. It was quite illustrating of the point. Perhaps I understand after all why males working at a construction yard want to become gopi girls.
Ananda said:
"I understand after all why males working at a construction yard want to become gopi girls"
Yeah, I knew all kinds of rough and tough dudes in ISKCON that wanted to be gopis of Krishna.
It always amazed me.
Now that you don't wanna be a gopi anymore, what do you want to be in your next life Ananda?
If you could be anything you wanted to be, what would that be?
No, Ananda, you can't be Krishna!
That position is already filled.
If I could be anything I want, and if that's an offer, I think I'd like to be Stay Puft Marshmallow Man!
But the marshmallow man doesn't have a dick and gets no sexual pleasure.
He is just a big fat white guy that get paraded up and down the street on a rope and shit on by birds.
Somehow, that just doesn't sound like you.
I finally figured out why Ananda decided he didn't want to be a manjari anymore.
He wasn't satisfied that his boobs were going to be big enough.
He already explained that he imagined himself as a young manjari with no boobs or pubic hair.
If you find out that actually you will have perfectly nice, round, shapely boobs with nipples like rubies, will you come back to Krishna?
Don't worry Ananda, all of the manjaris have nice boobs.
Perfect firm, raised boobs with nipples like jewels.
See, I no longer subscribe to a heaven-world where such narrations would be a concrete reality. The narrative is but a series of symbols in a parade of principles and archetypes.
The descriptions of boobs, pubic hair, coitus and so on in the books are there only to build a human bridge and let the audience gradually enter deeper into the substance of the symbols.
My view is much like the Tibetan tantric model with pantheons of archetypal deities, worshiped in order to absorb the essence of what they represent and embody -- not at all unlike in classical Hindu tantra and its ahangrahopasana, in fact, tied with the Radha-Krishna cult since its very inception.
Then what do you consider as "the substance" of the symbols?
In other words you read a different conclusion into the whole theology than has ever been expounded by the founders and successor acharyas?
Some things go over my head.
I am not exactly sure what you are saying in your last post.
It a little ambiguous and abstract for me to grasp.
I am one of the lesser beings that need everything simplified into the most simple terms and language.
Vegman, let me settle for quoting the following instead. Max Müller and I seem to be thinking quite along the same lines, even if my conclusions are rather independent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Muller)
---
For Müller, the culture of the Vedic peoples represented a form of nature worship, an idea clearly influenced by Romanticism. He saw the gods of the Rig-Veda as active forces of nature, only partly personified as imagined supernatural persons. From this claim Müller derived his theory that mythology is 'a disease of language'. By this he meant that myth transforms concepts into beings and stories. In Müller's view 'gods' began as words constructed in order to express abstract ideas, but were transformed into imagined personalities.
Thus the Indo-European father-god appears under various names: Zeus, Jupiter, Dyaus Pita. For Müller all these names can be traced to the word 'Dyaus', which he understands to imply 'shining' or 'radiance'. This leads to the terms 'deva', 'deus', 'theos' as generic terms for a god, and to the names 'Zeus' and 'Jupiter' (derived from deus-pater). In this way a metaphor becomes personified and ossified. This aspect of Müller's thinking closely resembled the later ideas of Nietzsche.
So, now Anandaji thinks that western philosophers and thinkers figured out how the myth of the Vedic gods came into being as a transformation of natural forces and energies into imagined persons that became the gods of the Vedic culture?
Well, I certainly don't agree with Müller.
Typical of all western speculators, he has no higher authority than his own mind which he uses to speculate about how and why the Vedic civilization came to have all their gods.
He doesn't accept that Vyasadeva was an avatar of the supreme being who compiled all the Vedic writings on the basis that they explain the esoteric mysteries of the universe.
Does Müller also explain away the God of the Jews in such a manner?
Obviously, Müller was a mental speculator and a conditioned living being with no transcendental experience or realization.
By comparison to the sages of India, Müller was a mental midget suffering from downs syndrome of the mind.
India sages RULE!!!!!
It's funny to watch Ananda now that he is on the other side debating what he believed not too long ago. This is that same fellow who not too long ago was an Fanatical Orthodox GV chap who ruled the GV Cyber world with his GD forum surrounded by Mods who kissed his ass as well as a closet sahajiya who kept his secret well.
At that time, the then Madhava gave anyone a hard time who had left GV and had found inconsistencies in the Religion. They were treated as if knew nothing and were considered as aparadhi scum, they were treated publicly in very rude offensive ways and were ganged up on by Madhava and his groupies. In his orthodox phase he treated everyone who differed with his Hard Line convictions as more less an asshole. When evidence was brought forth to substantiate findings of various inconsistencies in GV teachings, scriptures or various scholars, it was scoffed away as lies and coming from a 'poor fund of knowledge' (for lack of a better term) along with belittling of the individual who may have been sincere in his motive in bringing forth such findings for consideration, but no, the person was branded as an offender or fool and not worthy of consideration. Anandas leaving GV was not as smooth as he would like everyone to think. It was VERY hard and not just outwardly, but in his head, you cannot just LEAVE something so easily by jumping into another religion as he did. When he jumped into being a Buddhist declaring it to all his GV audience and the Buddhist community in cyber space with photos and all, he was deep in an identity struggle it seems, he was quick to grab a mask to show the public he was still cool and still worthy of his Cyber Crown and Fame. Thank god he has at least gone free lance and did not become a full blown Buddhist monk.
Vegman,
I think you are in need of some major life change or something, I like you man, always have and know you like to bust peoples chops online and don't take all this mumbo jumbo look at everything I know poopla as seriously as so many people do in these blogs and forums. But seriously dude, after that Philippine wife deal you seem to have become a bitter ol fuck holdin your cock in your hand way too often, snap out of it man!
And lastly Mr. Ananda,
Sir you can change your head and convictions and photos all you want and get a woodie reading posts from GV's who are at odds with you, but may I suggest you change your heart instead.
You don't fool us all though ol chap, I mean those who preceded you in pulling away from that ol religion your still obsessed with, we know it does happen like a strike of lightning wherein you are suddenly without it, it is a struggle and it can last for years as you were immersed in it for years. It was an intricate part of your identity for too way long to just be shucked away with a ceremony or new philosophical outlook or belief in your head.
And now you are immersed in posting all these GV writings, it speak heaps, read between the lines, all excuses are excuses..
lol!
I am sorry to see how some of you are trying to analyze Ananda. Almost all of your beliefs and ideas of him are completely imaginary and wrong – only reflecting your own personal fantasies and problems.
We don’t care what other people think about him or us, but for the truth’s sake I want to clarify a couple of things.
I have known Ananda the last 13-14 years and now live with him. He is not trying to torment gaudiya-vaishnavas or anybody else. He does not feel himself being above other people or their beliefs, but is merely trying to find his true identity and his own original thoughts for the first time in his life. This does not mean that he is trying to fabricate a personal ideology that fits his material desires.
In reality, he is not trying anything special or to be somebody special, he just lives the life here and now. For some people this is inspiring, for others – threatening.
Many are trying to control their own existential anxiety and fear by attempting to categorize (or demonize) him, which is a futile endeavour. However, it can be said, that he is a very sweet, serious, humble, calm, caring, decent and intelligent person and a searcher of truth.
Thanks, m'lady.
Vegman: Not asking you to believe. N.B. Haridas Shastri takes on a rather symbolic interpretation of the lila. I remember him pointing to the manjaris, for example, and then posing me the surprising question: "Now, where is there any question of a woman here?"
Anonymous: I'm glad the talks are entertaining. You must be really pissed over someting. I accommodated former Gaudiyas at GD to a bursting point, we even had a dedicated section for discussions outside the boundaries of GV theology. Incidentally, the former evolved into Gaudiya Repercussions, and again incidentally, it happens to be a forum to which I've done a ton of technical support over the years. Go check Tapati and the others and ask how they felt of my administration at GD back in the days, if you really have such a ton of pee in your cereals.
People who got to feel the rougher edge of me were usually guilty of one thing or another, such as repeatedly distracting discussions, harassing other members or some such. If I started giving names, I believe the names of both negative posters in this thread would pop up. Get over it already, duudsleys. You're the exact same folks who just can't get over it, not with and not with anything comparable; many of you (including the few others who visit on occasion) have a pretty tarnished track record in a couple of discussion forums at the very least, and that just about tells me all I care to know.
Both of you are incredibly, as also entertainingly, clueless about most things related to me. If on top of that you find my writings or personality irritating, but still feel like floating around somewhere in the comments corner like the ghost of the Christmas past, may I suggest lending a life from someone who actually has one and putting it into good use somewhere else. It'd be pretty wasted here, as neither of you seem to be grasping nine tenths of what I'm trying to say, and I'm also a bit worn out repeating myself.
excuses excuses
Oh dear dear dear, such a sad little troll we have visiting today.
I don't know who the troll is to think that he can psychoanalyze me and sort out my mental problems.
I gave up my young Filipina wife because I chose to because I was feeling an urge to get back into sadhana and I didn't want a young woman around sapping my vitality.
I am quite pleased to be a single man with my excellent 22 year old son and darling 15 year old daughter at home to keep me company.
My 20 year old daughter has since flown the coop a couple of years ago.
I gave up my wife in exchange for celibacy and minimum of 16 rounds a day and I am feeling more happiness now than I have ever felt.
I am just really looking forward to getting up at 4:30 a.m., taking a cold shower, putting in my CD of Bismillah Khan, burning my oriental fragrant oil lamp, chanting the Maha-mantra and studying shastra as I do every morning for over three hours before I go to work.
I don't need any lifestyle change.
I am quite content and peaceful.
I don't need any bitter, stale, dryed-up has-been of spiritual life telling me I need a lifestyle change.
I am the happiest I have ever been in my life and the Holy Name is so kind to me I cannot even begin to explain.
So, Mr. Bitter Troll who hides his identity, all I can say is I am sorry that life has turned you into such a sorry son-of-bitch and I wish you all the best and hope that you can get down off your high horse and bow down to Krishna.
I am quite happy.
Sorry to see that you are such a sad son-of-a-bitch.
Ananda likes to whine and complain about the trolls, but the truth of the matter is that when he rejected Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the devotees he took a piece of all them with him when he left so unceremoniously.
There were quite a few devotees that really admired him, respected him and yes - loved him.
He stomped on the hearts of all of them as he walked away from the Gaudiya cult.
But, he surely doesn't give a shit because he thinks they all owed him something and he didn't get the throne and worship he expected for being such a great saint and scholar that he was.
I guess he expected hundreds of devotees to just fall in behind him like some pied piper of ISKCON rejects.
Maybe they would have if he would have passed the test in the long haul.
But, he wanted the whole movement to just bow down and worship the young boy from Finland who had graduated ISKCON and gone to the higher platform.
He didn't get his internet empire of followers and in fact lost money on the deal.
So, he called it quits and now appears to be seeking a cult following from amongst the Jaded European Buddhists whom he wants to enlist in building an orphanage in Nepal.
Well, good luck.
I hope you are happy as an orphan from Nepal in your next life.
It is like this... Said Iam Thatiam Once for All!
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╠═══► ☻☻☻|☻☻☺|☻☺☻|☻☺☺ [Lunar-Ternary]
╠════► ☻☻|☻☺|☺☻|☺☺ ═► [Lunar-Solar-Binary]
╠═════► ∞ ☯ ∞ — ☻|☺ ═► [Bipolar-Quantum-Bliss]
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