you will be acbspimilated | resistance is futile
your distinctiveness will be engaged to service us
your distinctiveness will be engaged to service us
There's more in common to the Hare Krishnas and the Borg than just the hairdo and the uniform uniform, but that's a topic for another time. Today it's just a picture that tells you the thousand words.
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And if someone seriously doesn't know the Borg, here's the link. I imagine they wouldn't take kindly to the comparison.
"It is also demonstrated that it is possible to survive assimilation, and that drones can escape the collective, and become individuals, or exist collectively without forced assimilation of others."
It is surely a powerful image of Srila Prabhupada you have created here. There is some quality of deep self control that is enticing and at the same time frightening.
Here is my recent thoughts about individuality and ''individuation''. For a definition of individuation refer to the book, Phenomenon of Man by Teilhard de Chardin. Thought this thought stream might be relevant to your thought stream. Let us not project hey, some future idol that all must follow... That was my greatest Naam Aparadha!
***Key concepts for Spiritual Emergence and freedom from Delusion of Religion***
***Projection and the Collective***
The danger of religious delusion that is most evident on a global scale is extremism, an agenda driven war. This phenomena is not soley bound by religion. These agendas cross all areas, socio, political, religious, ecological and so forth of collective human development.
The human being, is an individual that has potential to integrate collectively. If the individual projects his ideal, collecting with like souls, the collective becomes a manifest reality. The danger of delusion is possible, because the human mind is not the total. Here lies possible evolution and/or destruction.
Essential for illusion to become enlightenment, is freedom from delusion. And freedom from delusion is realizing the collective lies within. Not externally in a false idol claiming to be God, or some religious agenda of a group. Doctrines and so forth. Such things are only tradition, and where never the absolute truth! Traditions are justified so that partial truths of God do not disappear, but instead flow and evolve, relevant to time and place etc.
The goal of the spirit in individual form may simply be to individuate, reaching full potential. Not dependant upon others, but at the same time fully integrated. A truly spiritual being. This (spiritual being) is the opposite to what I refer to as 'the delusion of religion'. I intuit this is the future of humankind in the 21st century (if we choose). Otherwise we will not choose evolution, but instead self destruction. And the greatest conflict human race has ever known. And ironically the catalyst for the destruction will be the very thing that is supposed to save mankind - religion. The delusional mind that projects on a grand scale!
*copyrighted by the individual spiritual being and down to earth foundation, blah, blah, blah.
from wiki
Jungians claim that Jungian psychology individuation is a process of psychological differentiation, having for its goal the development of the individual personality. "In general, it is the process by which individual beings are formed and differentiated; in particular, it is the development of the psychological individual as a being distinct from the general, collective psychology." [1]
Individuation is the process of transforming one’s psyche by bringing the personal and collective unconscious into conscious.[2] Individuation has a holistic healing effect on the person, both mentally and physically.[2]
People who have advanced towards individuation, besides being physically and mentally healthy, they are harmonious, mature and responsible. They promote freedom and justice. They have a good understanding about the workings of human nature and the universe.[3]
This is something written to a devotee who felt offended by this post. I suppose it's relevant for everyone.
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There are some taboos that need to be broken. Otherwise the establishment can never grow or heal. The idolization of ACBSP's fundamentalist traits has caused and will cause much unnecessary suffering, and this is a problem. Now, a problem cannot be solved until it is recognized as one — and as long as religious leaders and their teachings enjoy absolute diplomatic immunity, the problems are unlikely to ever be solved.
I have nothing against ACBSP on the whole, but I have something against projecting absolute wisdom unto and granting absolute power to religious leaders in general. I happen to be intimately familiar with this particular group and movement, and therefore seeing its traits and patterns is a great deal more obvious to me than any other given movement.
I'm certain Bill Gates can laugh about a Borg version of his photo (and a net full of them) and recognize a grain of truth somewhere in the jab. And heck, possibly even Mr. Bush may find some of his drone mock-ups amusing! Why should ACBSP have to be above and beyond comment?
What happens is he is taken from being a human and made into something else — superhuman, nonhuman or inhuman — and whatever his human legacy may have been is effectively lost in his followers' projections. Followers, who tend to fall on the side of turning inhuman rather than superhuman, and would then do well to stop focusing on the more totalitarian aspects of ACBSP's personality and mission.
Individuation is a neat word. Increased individually developed inner self-awareness is of course very desirable, even if one were aiming for an ultimate dissolution of anything personal. It's all about the gear you have for the journey, and an advanced, reflective psychology is a very helpful asset in just about any field of life.
To understand the patterns of the human mind is to know the boundaries of knowledge. All in all, it's all just a massive equation evening itself out; the collision of objects, the change of variables, the probabilities and the inevitabilities.
When the seers of yore said, "yasmin vijñAte sarvam idaM vijñAtaM bhavati", I'm pretty sure they meant the process of identifying and transcending the gross and subtle layers of the human whole, reaching a state of fundamental independence through dissociation, coined "atman" in their speech. It probably wasn't about bumping into a transcendental cow and suddenly understanding everything there is to be known.
Yes it is a wonderful word Ananda. In the final months of my life as a Gaudiya Vaisnava, certain internet devotees questioned if I was a 'closet' mayavadi. What a silly word that can be in the hands of people like the ones you have mentioned in this thread topic. (a worthy subject to bring up and discuss, thank you) Infact such idolatry in the guise of transcendence turns the discriminating away from the beauty of Sri Gauranga. Because it is simply deceit (manah siksa discusses that I recall). I am not knowledgable like you by the way, when it comes to sastra.
I have always been a personalist, am now, and was in my previous birth, even as a 4 year old. The wonder of personalism (from my thought stream) is that the 'individuated being' (who has entered harmlessness to some degree at least) is in fact 'a person'. And the spiritual person wishes to serve (to integrate), within a personal realm. I feel this can be a true argument against the impersonal viewpoint as being total (the complete projection). 'Every partilce that awakens, awakens in service to the whole'. And that does not depend upon collective projections in a general sense. Maybe 'we' as humanity will harmonize oneday. 'We are that love'.
Lets consider, Visnu glanced and it was. So it is with the particle rays, they also glance and 'it is'. I am pretty certain it is mentioned in Baladeva Vidyabhushana's Vedanta Sutra commentary that the liberated ray (atma) can choose to manifest (even a realm of a demi-god). He simply wills and he is there. There is no degradation of any of the 'astral' in that beautiful treatise that glorifies the 'choice' to serve Radharani.
That was the point that got me into hot water (the demi-god thing), and being accused as a closet mayavadi. The accuser was obviously not self-realized in these matters. And a defender of the faith.
Now, the fly-agaric as you mentioned in your previous thread can open these doors no doubt (at least make one more harmless), but even more fortunate is a soul whose doors are open naturally. It may simply be the pineal gland and its marvel.
Ofcourse the fundamentalist/purist Gaudiya will say that is maya. I disagree and that is why I left. I respect Jagat and his personal understandings and his willingness to share.
Anyhow, Sri Gauranga, oh yes, extremely beautiful! It is so sad over the length of time some divine personalities and their followers become stone idols covered on brass. And dogmas saturate the personality that lived and lives...
I tried and tried to share my heart in these matters, but the fundamentalism and 'borg' (in religious form) stifles all natural flow. I would suggest due to fear and the inability to 'integrate' the internal. "And that integration is a process that you, and me, and everyone else here on earth is 'in the process' of discovering." That is an aspect of Sanatana Dharma no doubt. Bhakti? It always was simple. Unfortunately the simple minds, or those who choose simplicity willing may not always be self honest (just some reflections on my own walk here).I was always complex and deep. Maybe bhakti is for the simple, like the monists always suggest.
Yes, neither the personal nor the homogeneous can be "ultimate". The ultimate cannot be defined in terms of contrasts, for contrast indicates comparability, and comparability indicates non-absolute nature. Hence the Buddha's cryptic answers on the nature of nirvana. There is no doubt transpersonal sentient existence out there, however transhuman existence might be a reasonable starting point as far as immediate objectives go.
And the issue of Chaitanya vs. Gaudiya Vaishnavism, the whole world of the tradition's interpretation of Chaitanya, is something that also deserves a good look. Not now, however, and not within the month either. Too many pots on the stove (or too much pot on the stove?), need to prioritize with work for the time being.
Yes, same here, I am putting those pots on the backburner for a season too.
Similar again, the transhuman experience is a worthy objective. Maybe the body and soul is a gift, rather than the curse (as basic theology teaches - Bhaktivinoda spoke simply to his audience with an agenda, smart cookie, but such a woeful prison-house theology never really hit the spot). Jai Maa!
Buddhism, I will keep that on simmer for a while too. Maybe a '3 tier' cooker like Srila Prabhupada would be nice...and later the feast.
I think, and I may be wrong, that people like to think of others as being as you say, 'super human', as a way of answering the question, 'why am I not like that?'.
Hence for example, many Buddhists don't seek to become Buddha, but instead to worship him. I don't know if the latter is good or bad, but becoming Buddha is the whole point of Buddhism, so I understand.
Similarly, the purpose of Krishna Consciousness is Bhakti. When a person trying to gain Bhakti sees a person who has attained that, whoever that may be, I suppose they would often come up with reasons as to why that person is different to them.
In India, you see a lot of pious men who lived for some noble cause are called Avatars. I imagine this is the same principle.
- resistance is futile! -
Years ago when I watched Star Trek regularly I thought the same thing about the Borg and ISKCON. So it was funny to see you make the connection.
As you may know the Borg is a collective consciousness where a single female entity controls all members of the collective. The members of the collective are one with and different from the Borg queen. It is exactly what Chaitanya taught -- bhedabheda, with ultimately a single female entity in total control of a collective consciousness who is seeking to bring new members into her service by their becoming consciously part of her collective consciouness. She communicates with them from within and controls them as well -- she is God. From wikipedia:
The Borg Queen is the focal point within the Borg collective consciousness and a unique drone within the collective, who originates from Species 125, that brings "order to chaos"Ananda you said:
Yes, neither the personal nor the homogeneous can be "ultimate". But, both together can be called "ultimate". Enlightenment, or moksha in the Vedic schema, is achieved when the person awakens to the Borg-like nature of true reality. We are both personal and homogeneous at the same time. Our consciousness is uniquely personal, but we exist within an all-pervading consciousess as a part of it. Our mind is a combination of each of our unique personalities -- existing within and comprised and completely controlled by an all-pervading supermind/consciousness.
The goal of Vedanta is to gain enough knowledge on that true nature of our self and our mind so that we are then able to experience the true nature of reality. By dissassociating our sense of control over what we do and think; with the knowledge that the all-pervading supermind is in total control over everything we experience; at that stage of realization we become one with the supermind because we understand that whatever we do or think -- is being controlled by the supermind who we exist within and as a part of.
At that stage the control of the supermind over everything is directly revealed by it, whereas previously it was only theoretical to you.
Imagine living in computer generated virtual reality where you have gained enough knowledge to understand that you live in a virtual reality, and, that a user who is in control of the simulation is controlling everything you experience because he/she is controlling the computer and is the computer, both hardware and software. That controller manifests and controls all of the avatars within the virtual world; some are manfestations of it's own personality whose purpose is to interact with others, some are unique individuals who it seeks to relate with, the rest are manifested for purposes other than enjoying relationships with unique people, i.e. stage sets, extras, etc, for a dramatic performance.
Of course since the controller is actually the absolute and total controller of everything within the virtual world it comprises and controls; you cannot control when and how or if you can perceive or have a personal relationship with it at any given moment. But, since that is the purpose of your existence; it gives you the education necessary to enable you to leave the world of illusion and ignorance, i.e the "material world" and enter into the world of eternal truth and bliss, i.e the "spiritual world"
But first you need to understand the true nature of yourself, your mind and thoughts, and the world around you. When you understand that it is all a manifestation of a single conscious supermind who is controlling everything you experience; at that stage you have earned the keys to the kingdom. When you can see Who-Is-In-Control of everyone here and now, all of the time, than you have attained the first stage of moksha -- seeing and communicating with the supreme controller of the universe; and cause of all causes.
Sexy time now? yes?
Haven't heard from you for a while. Are you okay?
Just rather busy with work, my correspondence has been near to a halt for a while now.
Oh Mother Satya, you are a caring soul :-)If even cautious of the young Bauls...and their illusory shadows.
God's love is sufficient, for a 'sound mind' and 'happy heart' - even in this forest fire and wheel...or transition in 'time'.
God is 'in there' for the Hari's, the Pagan's, the Jesus People...even the Wall Street soft shoe shufflers get the audarya (day by day)....And various other 'cult driven malady' adding to this collective soup, even get the 'heart factor.'..in this cosmic evolution! It never was de-volution? if we are talking and meeting on spiritual terms! Doom is gloom. A seed is the essence. And a grand tree is 'cosmic'.
CC Adi 17.271
bharati kahena - tumi isvara, antaryami
ye karaha, se kariba, - svatantra nahi ami
The most important thing is to be true, hey? To that 'heart personality', and live life well, full of devotion (and most importantly, gratitude).
your eternal friend.
I had a dream a while back that I was a person something like the Bauls. I watched some video on Youtube about some Bauls. But, it was weeks after that when I dreamed that I was in a group like the Bauls performing our style of kirtan or whatever you call it.
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